(0:00) Hey guys! How you doing?
Today, I’m pretty excited because we have done something which is pretty new. So for the first time we have organized a Live Q and A chats. We have the followers of the Designs Sketchbook Blog and we have ART CENTER College of Design where we are meeting David Salow who is in charge of recruiting students from all over the world to welcome them at Art Center.
And so he’s looking at thousands of portfolio per year and he have greatly accepted to share with us his advices about portfolio and how to get hired in a Design school in art school and as well to Art Center.
Alright so it’s a pretty long video of great content there is about 2 hours and 30 minutes. So it’s more like which said to be soon as a podcast. So just press play and I’m pretty sure you are going to learn a lot of stuff for you and raise your chance to get higher in the Designs School of your choice. So see you on the rother side!
(01:03) How to Apply a Design School with a Portfolio?
(01:11) David Salow: Hi everybody. This is David Salow from Art Center. I just wanna do a quick audio check if you happen to hear my voice that means the audio in my side is working well and if you could just send me a quick email. Good, good! So the audio is working well. We’re gonna start up in about 7 minutes or so.
Both Chou-Tac and I will have the ability to talk to you and have a little bit of a dialog about portfolios. So, yeah! I just want to make a quick audio check going maybe Chou-Tac on your own if you can also confirm that you have the ability to talk its looking bad the microphone icon at the top of the screen.
(02:06) Chou-Tac Chung: Alright, so hello, David. Hello everyone! So can you hear me?
(02:10) David Salow: Yes, I can.
(02:11) Chou-Tac Chung: If yes, can you please type in the chat. Okay, great. So David you hear me?
(02:14) David Salow: Fantastic! Technology actually works it always surprises me a little bit when things tend to come together.
(02:21) Chou-Tac Chung: And when it come the first time. Usually there’s always like something happening just last minute. (Laughs). The technology things.
(02:30) David Salow: I don’t know. You know I, yes?
(02:34) Chou-Tac Chung: No, no, it’s fine.
(02:36) David Salow: Yeah, I, I.
(02:38) Chou-Tac Chung: (Laughs). Everything is improved.
(02:41) David Salow: Somebody mention in the chat box and I’m hearing it a little bit myself. Chou-Tac on your end, I think the volume is not as loud as it could be.
(02:52) Chou-Tac Chung: Okay. So we speak closer to the mic. Is it better right now?
(02:57) David Salow: Yes, yes, that’s better.
(03:00) Chou-Tac Chung: Okay, so.
(03:01) David Salow: Or you could just be help.
(03:02) Chou-Tac Chung: I’ll just put the mic closer.
(03:03) David Salow: (Laughs).
(03:05) Chou-Tac Chung: (Laughs). It’s 2am where I am now. (Laughs).
(03:10) David Salow: Oh, that, that might make it a little bit difficult. (Laughs).
(03:13) Chou-Tac Chung: Yes. (Laughs).
We have some extra guest later. My neighbors maybe would come to join us. (Laughs).
(03:21) David Salow: Oh, sure they’re going to be fascinated about the inner workings of portfolios. (Laughs).
(03:27) Chou-Tac Chung: (Laughs). Yes, yes of course.
(03:30) David Salow: Especially it’s 2 o’clock in the morning. (Laughs).
(03:33) Chou-Tac Chung: We have to challenge my ability to speak in Japanese also.
(03:38) David Salow: Oh, wow! Well, you know Japanese culture is very polite so they’re probably won’t even say anything to you. (Laughs).
(03:45) Chou-Tac Chung: Oh, no. I will invite them to join us. (Laughs).
(03:49) David Salow: Okay. Well, fantastic!
(03:51) Chou-Tac Chung: What’s a great thing tonight is that. You are in L.A. its 9am on your side. On my side is opposite of the world is 2am and I’m very curious to see or saw from participants. Where do you guys come from? So you guys who can type us in the chat where do guess come from as well. And maybe what time is it on your side as well would be, just curious about it.
(04:19) David Salow: Yeah, it’s kind of exciting when you think about it that you know around the world we can have everybody kind of at the same moment participating in something like this.
(04:33) Chou-Tac Chung: Yep! Yeah.
(04:34) David Salow: The live aspect of it is something that I really appreciate. India peers, Vancouver.
(04:40) Chou-Tac Chung: (Laughs). Yeah. Thank you very much David for proposing this live chat. It’s really cool idea.
(04:46) David Salow: Oh! I’m so glad. Well you know I’ve been seeing your videos. I’ve been a fan of what you do.
(04:55) Chou-Tac Chung: Oh! Thanks.
(04:56) David Salow: So I knew that it will just, it would be just inevitability that at some point we would talk. And you know I hope that this will be the beginning of a dialog between us.
(05:12) Chou-Tac Chung: That would be amazing.
(05:13) David Salow: We can you know. Yeah, fantastic!
(05:16) Chou-Tac Chung: It’s really an honor for me to have you. It’s real expected.
(05:23) David Salow: Well, you know. (Laughs). I saw that you know, I think the design world is a big place but it’s also a small place. And you know I don’t think it was necessarily a coincidence that the last video I saw you were talking to somebody who graduated from Arts Center.
(05:46) Chou-Tac Chung: Yeah, he’s doing great things.
(05:49) David Salow: Yeah, yeah and that community of designer I think you know our paths tend to cross quite a bit. So yeah, it’s exciting. I’m really glad. You know my particular focus at Art Center is the student to come to us from international basis. Especially with probably the students that you mentor and teach and just seeing from the variety of different places that people are coming from. It really seem like a truly.
(06:32)Chou-Tac Chung: How many countries do you think has been represented in Art Center?
(06:41) David Salow: That’s a good question.
(06:44) Chou-Tac Chung: I really wondered.
(06:47) David Salow: 40, don’t quote me on this and the only way that I, this is kind of a back of the napkin kind of an assessment. But the way that I judge how many students we typically have from overseas is from graduation we hang the flags out what every country that’s our Art Center along the hall way of Art Center.
(07:10) Chou-Tac Chung: (Laughs). That’s cool.
We hang the flags out what every country that’s our Art Center
(…) we probably have I don’t know 50, 60, 70, different flags.
(07:11) David Salow: And any giving graduation we probably have I don’t know 50, 60, 70, different flags. So I’m always kind of keeping my eyes out I’m saying, “Oh, wow! We’ve got you know student from this country and that country.” You know myself, I travelled quite a bit. You know in my capacity as the international director of recruitment. And so like for instance in two weeks I’m going to Mexico and then a few weeks after that, Brazil and then I’ll be headed to Europe, and I always end up going to Asia at least once a year. I’m thinking, I saw that one of the chat participant said India. I think there’s a good chance. Quite a few participants are actually from India so there’s a good chance I’ll be heading to India this upcoming year as well.
(08:04) Chou-Tac Chung: So you’re going to all this countries to meet some potential students?
(08:09) David Salow: Yes, yes that’s correct.
When I go overseas it’s partly to meet potential students but also to meet faculty comparable institutions to potentially discuss the idea of partnerships. So you know having students come and study at Art Center or having our students go there. You know I think Art Center really envisions itself as a global institution. And one that’s you know make a real concerted effort to extend its reach out outside of just the United States.
Art Center really envisions itself as a global institution (…) to extend its reach out outside of just the United States.
(08:50) Chou-Tac Chung: So you mean that every year you’re doing a kind of a little work to whorl. You meet maybe some design school to do some partnership with them and some of them will go to throughout Centers like Asians students maybe.
(09:05) David Salow: Yeah, I mean its starts exactly right. What I do is I spend most of the year you know in the United States but I spend a significant amount of time overseas. And you know that’s either to encourage students to conceder Art Center but also it is building relationships with other faculty and thinking about ways in which we could strategically potentially work with them.
(09:43) Chou-Tac Chung: Well that’s cool.
(09:46) David Salow: Did you see that too the raise 10? I didn’t know that it’s an option.
(09:48) Chou-Tac Chung: Yes!
(09:50) David Salow: Okay. Well then. Who raises hand?
(09:53) Chou-Tac Chung: Does it mean that you want to attract attentions so they can ask a questions? Is that correct?
(09:58) David Salow: I think so. I think it’s very, very polite. It’s actually maybe a good in moment to mention. But when I’ve done this type chat of work for the participants, if you wanted to ask questions all you need to do is just type in the chat box. And you type an icon go through and look through the question and discuss them and that maybe a good way to start. But you know one thing I was anticipation this discussion today I thought about you know what could I say in the beginning to kind of start things of. And since it’s right around 9 o’clock might be a good idea to start
(10:48) Chou-Tac Chung: Okay, cool.
(10:50) David Salow: You know although everyone will be typing their questions now I think I’d probably like to start things of today just with a little bit of a discussion about what I do. And a little bit about Art Center to give background. And then we can go into the specific questions.
(11:13) Chou-Tac Chung: Yes, perfect.
(11:16) David Salow: I am the director of the international recruitment at the school as I was mentioning a few minutes ago. My goal and the things that I focus on is making Art Center as international institution as possible. Now, what that means in a practical level is that I am the point person for a student who’s interested in Art Center and potentially studying there. And I can help them with their application and help them with their portfolio.
One of the things that I think might be useful because I think people have a variety of different backgrounds and a variety of different experiences is to start the discussion with kind of an overview of what exactly is Art School in the United States. Because there is I don’t know maybe people have heard some of the famous institutions like Art Center or RISD or Cal Arts and might be a little bit of a mystery and I think there’s a few important things that everyone should know a little about if you’re thinking about studying in the United States Art School or Design School in particular.
The first thing I would mention is that there are different classes of institution; a different type of institution in the United States called Art Schools. Now, this will include places like Art Center, SPA, RISD, Cal Arts, school of the Art institute. There are about 30 or so institutions that identify as Art Schools. Now, at the very same time that those institutions exists Universities in the United States places like Brooklyn, and Stanford, and Harvard, and LA. They all have art departments as well so if you’re a young designer and you’re thinking, “Well, okay I want to study in the United States, I wanna study something Art and design related.”
How do you make the determination on whether or not you should chose in Art School or whether or not you should chose a traditional University?
Well the difference boils down to the type of degree so other Art School you’d receive a Bachelor Fine Art degree of Bachelor of Science degree. Now, this is different that you will receive at a traditional University like Stanford or Brooklyn or Harvard or LA any of does places.
The difference is that more traditional degree that you would get at a University is a Bachelor Arts degree. Now, this is your traditional level arts degree where you’re taking a wide variety of required classes across a number of different areas like English, and foreign languages, and History, and Sciences, and you’re getting that classical level Art education with a focus on Art and design.
Now, if you chose to go on an Art School that wide variety of classes, those History classes, those English classes, those classes in foreign languages and Statistics they typically don’t exist at Art Schools and they’re not part of the curriculum.
What an Art School those really well, this is the place where you get a BFA of a Bachelor’s of Science. What are Art School those very well is it focuses your entire education, your 4 years in college around the professional skills set that you would need as an Artist Designer. So the benefits of approach is that you have a very focus education to draw back to this approaches like you don’t have that wide variety that the fay type of educational offerings that you would get at the University.
Now, within those 30 or 40 Art Schools that exist in the United States there is a fundamental difference between those schools and Art Center. The fundamental difference and this is part of the reason Chou-Tac why I searched you up and I saw your tutorials.
The fundamental difference between Art Center and this other institutions is those other institutions in everyone that I’ve listed they all have freshmen foundation year.
Now, you’re probably wondering what is foundation year. Foundation year in the United States is the first year of Art College. Now the majority of students who go to Art College in the United States have access to maybe some Art classes in high school and they will served by a foundation year. Because a foundation year teaches in General Classes like figure drawing, design sketching, 2D design, 3D design, materials classes.
The idea behind all of those other institutions is the first year foundation gives you a year of college level Art Design classes before you chose your major. What is always made Art Center different is we skip right over that foundation year. So there is a number of important consequences that come from that. And this is why I stay as busy as I possibly can stay.
The most important consequence, the two most important consequences of Art Center not having a foundation year, the first one is that you already have to know your major when you applied. When you applied the Art Center, if you chose to apply to that school we have 11 different undergrad majors and you have to pick up one. And each one of those majors has a separate set of characteristics that they look for. And when I say they, what I mean is that it’s up to the each department to decide who gets in to the program. The most other school it’s the admission staff that makes the decision. I don’t make any decisions.
If you apply for Product Design or Entertainment Design or Transportation Design, then your portfolio has to appeal to that particular Department Chair.
So my goal in the process is when I talk with the prospective students at Art Center is help them clarify which one of the program at the school they’re interested in and then I give them advice on portfolio. Because when we do the admissions reviews with the Department Chairs I’m there and I’ve see exactly how they react to every possible different type portfolio that’s out there.
Now, I also recognize that everyone who’s attending the chat not everyone is going to Art Center or interested in applying. So I want to also try to them my remarks to be more general around the idea of portfolio. And you know I’m in a kind of unique position because I like to describe myself us a jack of all trades but a master of none. And what I mean by that is you know the benefit of being in the world that I am.
I have this overview of seeing thousands of portfolios a year if valuated by 11 different designers, 11 different Department Chairs. So there are a few things that I can extract and maybe discuss for the general benefit of everyone.
And I say that also with the caveat that with the understanding that my observations have been in the context of Art School admissions. So please don’t interpret my remarks as necessarily being applicable for somebody who is applying a job as a designer. I can give you some overviews on my experience but that experience is colored by my rule in the admissions process but I do think even that being said there are some kinds of general things that I would talk about.
So and I’ll try to interweave them into the discussion at the same time. The first thing I wanna kinda get back just for a second to some of the designs school questions around portfolio. Now, I’m just going to talk about maybe one or two or three different types of portfolios that I think that might be most common or the students who are listening today. The first program I wanna talk about portfolio is Transportation Design. Art Center has a I would say a legendary program in Transportation Design.
Our graduates are responsible for over half of the car setter design of the world today able to you know any major car design firming go down the roaster of who’s designing at that firm. There’s a good chance that person has studied at Art Center.
It’s an insane program in terms of how much studio work they give you. And by the way at Art Center for every major, the benefit of going to that school is because we don’t have foundation year and we focus from the beginning. You end up taking from anywhere from 30 to 40 different studio classes in your major which is an insane level of preparation. But it really speaks to wider students typically do well at the work place. For Transportation Design, what they want to see in a portfolio is for car designs. And the number 1 skill that they are looking for is a designs sketching’s surprise, surprise.
One of the questions that I get often with transportation or product or entertainment designer should I’ve be judge.
How much should be digital? How much should be hand sketching?
And at least for Art School admission at Art Center we tend to prefer that direct feel hand sketch and marker based renderings. You know I can tell you from my experience of those Department Chairs and the design areas. What we look for in a portfolio when we’re asking for hand sketching is clear evidence that you logged in the hours. You know drawing free hand ellipsis and learning perspective.
You know the thing about digital which I think it makes it difficult for Department Chairs is that there’s no way to directly trace somebody skill level when things are digital.
Because you can always go back in edit and make it look nicer but there’s something very direct and immediate about a marker base rendering or a hand sketch. And it give us a certain opportunity to appreciate you know your skill level and your whether or not you’re ready for Art Center.
The other 2 majors I wanna talk about really quickly so for Transportation design we wanna see 3 to 4 different car projects where you’re showing us from the early concept all the way through to the marker base renderings your ideas for 3 vehicles. For Product Designs —, yes?
(22:48) Chou-Tac Chung: David? Do you mean that someone, let’s say is fascinated by Transport Design but doesn’t have portfolio yet can apply to Art Centers by preparing this four design of cars?
(23:00) David Salow: Yes, well here’s the thing there’s definitely an overlap between the skills that you’re teaching with design sketching in general and the type of skills that transportation design looks for. They both fall under that umbrella of designs sketching.
There are a few divergences of course you know when you talk about well how do you draw tires and how do you indicate things like chrome using markers. There’s a few checks and tips but those things are necessarily as important as to showing as the fundamentals of design sketching.
You know, oh! So that’s, John has good question. And I wanna kind of interact with that as well. You know I promise I will get to that. I’m trying to balance multiple things. But maybe actually let me, I don’t know if anyone ask a question before John. But I wanna kinda, John’s question seems kind of important.
How does the Art Center prepare the students to tackle all the multi-disciplinary stake holder who’s come along during a usual development process?
That’s a good question. You know I think that’s speaks a little bit to the particulars of each programs so you’ll forgive me if I speak in generalities. But I think one of the ways that Art Center does that is the way where business with which we involve industry in the learning process at the school. So each one of the programs is set up to mimic Design Studio where students work on projects.
We have something called sponsored project at the school especially in the world of car design but also product design. Every single year we have companies come and sponsor projects where it’s literally your working for that company.
So that idea of learning the skills sets that are permeant to working across a variety of different fields is something that I think. The number one goal of the school is to prepare you to seamlessly transition in to the work place. And the best way to do that is to recreate that as much as it’s possible at the school. I hope that answers your question.
What do you think Chou-Tac? Should I just go down the list of question or?
(25:30) Chou-Tac Chung: You want to share something about Product Design?
(25:33) David Salow: Oh, yes! (Laughs). I see that’s the danger of focusing of the question. Okay, yes! So Product Design. So for Product Design portfolio the Department Chair wants to see 3 to 4 maybe even 5 projects and there are a few things I’d like to specify. Number 1, the drawing and sketching skill set where you’re showing this is actually I think important.
So the language in which you’re communicating in your portfolio is the language of designs sketching and design rendering.
But what’s really important and I’ve notices in the number of different portfolios is that the use of that language it should be used to tell the story and express the evolution of your ideas in the portfolio.
Every saw up when I see somebody who’s acquired the language design sketching but they use it in a very illustrative way where they’re presenting a number of different options rather than actively working through their designs on the page.
And in general I would say the more that your portfolio can tell the story of your design process and that includes the roads you’ve taken in often times the road you did not take but there’s a sense of narrative.
And in these points to what should you be designing in your portfolio for Product Design.
One of the things that the Department Chair would repeatedly ask for is that you design around human need.
That you know there’s multiple ways to tackle the question of design. I mean you could design a coffee cup that looks nicer or is more appealing to a consumer or you could start from the fundamentals question of like, “How do people use this? And what are the weak points? And is there an opportunity for me as a designer to design something that functions in a way that response to how humans use things and how they live in a daily basis?” So often times I get the question of like,
“What should I? What kind of product? Do you have any ideas?”
And then just well I just recommend the students that go back to your daily life and those things that you like doing.
You know if you play tennis you probably know more about tennis rockets than anyone else.
So maybe consider designing around those things that you know rather than, you know designing something you don’t have a lot of knowledge.
Because you haven’t believed with it you don’t have that intimate connection.
(28:11) Chou-Tac Chung: If you have passion on something is actually helps a lot to convey this passion into the sketching as well.
(28:18) David Salow: Yeah! That’s such a good point. This is maybe true. Let’s say before I wanted to try to extract things that might be useful for everyone that idea of passion versus not to set up this artificial opposition but passion versus polish, right? You could have a completely slick portfolio that is manicured. And you can’t criticize it in anyway but then sometimes you place a portfolio that just conveys passion that you get the sense of looking at the portfolio that this person has to do this.
That if you put this person on a desert island they will still fill up a bunch of sketchbook and come up with these ideas. And that sense of passion I’ve seen it moved the Department Chairs sometimes as much if not more than like an elevated skill set or a perfectly polish portfolio.
(29:19) Chou-Tac Chung: Awesome! What I like also the fact that when a candidates can try to convey each his passion, let’s say we say tennis. He really love tennis and try to make a project about tennis for this Designs projects. What would be cool is to show that you can actually teach something to the people who are going to hire him or to recruit him. That would even more interesting just not to present a project to say. “Hey! I’m here. What I’ve done is it good enough?” I believe that it should be go further and show that the candidate has done so much passion into it. Like has been bring its own expertise into his project. That his opportunity, that’s the kind or reversal mindset that could be even more let’s say, a fuel is energy to do a great project.
(30:16) David Salow: Yeah, and here’s a thing there’s room a very practical level and again this made be more applicable for those students who are thinking about designs school admissions.
I would like to share with the students that the insight that I have that sometimes you know let’s say you have a portfolio with 4 or 5 projects, there’s no way for you to know in advance whether or not someone will like that end project. You know they might like your coffee cup. They might like your tennis rocket, they may not.
But if you include process work, if you include all of the preliminaries sketcher and the story of it then you’re just giving somebody more opportunities to find something they may like.
That’s what I’ve notice over the years is that sometimes those things in your portfolio that it’s like the last couple of pages you think, “Oh, well this is the crowning moment.” And often times it’s like the Department Chair will find this sketch 4 pages early that just communicates in idea or has a certain amount of passion around it and that’s the thing they’re focus on. So the benefit of including process work is that you give somebody more opportunities to find something they like. And process work also communicates passion and I think in general.
Here’s another insight that I would say and I can always speak for Art School admissions but it might be capable as well to other areas. When people typically review portfolios it’s never the case that it’s like your portfolio. It’s the only one we look at. It’s not like we take your portfolio home open up a bottle of wine and spent time living through each pages normally their viewed in a context of other portfolios. So when you put yourself into the position of somebody who’s looking at 20 or 30 or 40 different portfolios,
“What is the characteristic of those that stands out?”
And I think in one level it is skill but then again in that room there’s going to be with 30 different portfolios maybe half of them will have an acceptable or good skill level. So what characterize is those 2 or 3 that just seem to standout in other different.
In my experience it’s been the passion that’s conveyed in the portfolio, the uniqueness of the idea; sometimes it’s even the presentation you know.
There’s another major at the school, Entertainment Design. Art Center has also has a little bit famous history in Entertainment Design you know. When you think about who are the Industrial Designers from everything from Star Wars, The Cars, they come from Art Center.
And the Entertainment Design portfolio we asked for 4 different things. We ask for characters, environments, vehicle, and props.
And over the years theirs is evolve the very standard formatting to this portfolio. And I’ve notice that a lot of time if somebodies sticks to that format too closely they just become one of many different types of portfolios. So I’m always trying too when I worked with students. You know one of the great things about what I do for Art Center because I’m not part of the decision making process.
I’m freed up to advice students, and work with students, and give them my opinion on presentation.
And when I worked with students and give them advice it’s always trying to do 2 things. It’s in the one hand trying to make sure that they’re satisfying what their department wants to see but also like fundamentally asking the question, “How do we make this portfolio different? How do we make it standout? What are those areas?” And often times it’s like finding somebody something in a sketchbook that somebody did at 3 o’clock in the morning and there’s thinking nobody wants to see this. But that element of diference, that element of uniqueness, that element of surprise cannot be discounted.
Assuming that everything is equal, assuming you have the skill level to be competitive, “what is that characteristic, that x-factor?” it is that element of surprise and difference and often times that’s communicated through those projects that you’re most passionate about.
(34:50) Chou-Tac Chung: I would have a question, David. Let’s say this uniqueness, let’s say you have a candidates which has a very unique style but which never been seen in the industry yet. Would it take it more as risk or more like an opportunity as great candidates to bring in?
(35:16) David Salow: So can you rephrase that slightly different? Can you say that again? I’m not sure to pick up that.
(35:28) Chou-Tac Chung: Let’s say within the designing industry like in the markets if a candidate has something to propose in his portfolio that is very unique but never seen before which we can question if it will be applicable on notes within the design industry, would you take it more as a risk to hire him, to recruit him more as a opportunity?
(35:53) David Salow: Well I think that’s a good question. It’s a question that I can really only answer for the context of the world that I lived in which is the admissions to dallying spot. I would hesitate to speculate the element of risk when it comes to professional portfolios because it isn’t area that, I don’t have that professional experience. In my world, in the world that
I had habit of watching Department Chairs decide on portfolio I think that element of risk is wonderful.
And it’s such an amazing characteristic to have. I think one way to maybe head your beats and maybe for those people who are thinking in terms of professional portfolios is be that risk taker but also show your portfolio to people who opinion you your value and who are in that particular industry and get their feedback. I can’t stress enough. This is something that is important though.
I do wanna mention this because every year I work with hundreds if not thousands of students and often times there is hesitancy and a reluctant on the part of the student to show their work to other people.
And this idea that you were a mad scientist and you’re not gonna showed to anyone until it’s perfect and complete. And the advice that I give and maybe the advice you would get from other people often times can be the most valuable in the beginning stages of the process to kind of play doubles advocate to ask close questions early.
So these natural impulses that I think a lot of people have to protect and hide their portfolio until it’s perfect. I’d recommend you to work against that, and don’t be shy, and don’t be hesitant about sharing your early versions of the portfolio. I mean, I assume on the professional level there might be some considerations about well in intelectual property. For Art Center you know everything that you show us is of course a hundred percent confidential we never would disclose it to anyone. But I don’t know that just came to mind. Do you think maybe? I know that I address like an early question but the question had been cueing up a little bit.
(38:20) Chou-Tac Chung: Let’s start with the theory.
(38:22) David Salow: It might be good to kinda respond to the question. Okay so let’s see. Where did I leave?
(38:34) Chou-Tac Chung: We had a question from Shin-Han Sab at the beginning if you scroll up.
(38:40) David Salow: Okay. Let’s see. Where was that? Shin-Han Sab, okay. I see that he said hello. What was the question he asked?
(38:59) Chou-Tac Chung: Hello. Where do you used to get to designs source?
(39:04) David Salow: Okay, yeah. So I don’t know what that means exactly. Where do you used to get to designs source? Maybe if we get more clarification.
(39:16) Chou-Tac Chung: Okay. So we go to the next one.
(39:19) David Salow: Yeah, okay.
(39:21) Chou-Tac Chung: Suripatil, how should be ideal portfolio to get admission in the design college?
(39:27) David Salow: So there’s 2 different ways to go about that. Number 1, if you’re applying to any other school in the United States or most of them they’re gonna ask you for 12 works, that 12 to 15 works and it’s up to you to pick one. If you apply to Art Center we changed what’s different. It’s like you have to pick out of major. You have to follow the portfolio requirements for that major on our website. We typically would show your portfolio to me 2 or 3 or 4 different times before you apply. And my goal would be to get your portfolio into the format that the Department Chair likes to see. So if you’re talking about those other schools the ideal portfolio for those kind of shows a mix of creativity, potential and skill but I can’t talk beyond that because every school look for maybe something different.
For Art Center the portfolio is more a balance between showing your ideas and showing to Department Chair the particular skill sets that they need to see to be comfortable admitting you into their program. So we do plays a quite a bit of emphasis on the clearly defined skills sets that each department wants to see at Art Center. So it’s that about balance, really. Okay, so moving on. Let’s see. So the Art Center we talk about the multi-disciplinary question that John asks. Defny, master in interaction design. I can’t speak on getting into design consultancy that’s outside of my skill set unfortunately sorry, Defny.
How a self-employed person is can prove his experience while work is a freelancer. Yeah, that’s a tough question that Vietong is asking. Again it’s something that I don’t know if I can necessarily answer. I think it does touch upon the question of like the value of potentially going to an Art School. Being part of it is seems traction you would receive but part of it you get access to this network of instructors you work in the industry of businesses, and in major companies that come to campus, and sponsor projects that they come to campus, my art students have portfolio shows. So I think one of the benefits and its one of maybe the challenges as a sell comply person is how do you build that network yourself or how do you tap into it. I can’t really speak to that but it is one of the benefits
I think in general of going to a school that you do get access to this network.
Cavery Puppet, how should we emphasize skills, we are very strong at and main settled teach to the other like it shows the balance between all my projects and skills? It’s a good question. How do you emphasize skills that you’re strong at? For Art Center it’s kind of a balance between emphasizing those things that you’re good at but also making sure that the things your emphasizing is the things that the department really wants to see. So for example, if you’re really an amazing painter but your goals to become a car designer that amazing ability to paint is not going to be something you would be emphasize in your portfolio.
I think that you know the more that you can find something that you are passionate and good about and follow that direction, the more that it’s an alignment.
I think that more your portfolio will be a good balance of those things that you’re passionate about and those things that you want to achieve. Art Center for PG and Transportation Design in mechanical adjured. Serab asks a very good question. And you know a lot of students at Art Center have a previous Bachelor degree that’s just the reality.
Often times especially for something like Transportation Design or Product Design may make come to us from an engineering background.
Sometimes we have architecture students studying environmental design at the school. And so just because you have previous degree it can make your experience richer at Art Center but the number one thing it not gonna matters so much as can you do the portfolio work if you wanna apply for Transportation Designs start sketching cars in the right way. Start learning how to render cars. You know those are the skill set that’s the most important thing. Graphic Design is mentioned here. So Graphic Design is super important. With Graphic Design please show process work, please show typography, please show your layout, and please in divert to tell the story of your design and decisions. One of the biggest peoples I’ve seen in Graphic Design portfolios and again this is just for Art School admissions. It’s not necessarily for professional admissions, for admission for to a job. Often times a Graphic Designer we just keep presented with poster design, layout design, and pocket design but there’s no process. There’s no way for us to understand how you arrived at your goal.
Having that thread of narrative showing us how diligent you are that when you are designing a poster you have 3 or 4 pages of typographic explorations.
That typography is in your blood that it’s something that you’re passionate about. That choosing the right type of this with the right job, the right layout, the right color comes, that passion express in your portfolio. Because like I was saying before
if you express that passion even if they don’t like the final decision they’re still going to respect the effort and time you put into that.
Okay. So depending on your insights and what we feel comfortable shall be specific while we chose years for internships being a pressure in the industry of program bachelors. I don’t know if I can answer that question cause again that’s more in the internship question. I’m more on the admissions side of things. Haydep, how can anyone with the background in engineering with the passion for Product Design who is in design products but does not have a portfolio. You know I would say just make a portfolio that shows 3 or 4 products, that show that you have an insight into how people use things and that you spent time learning how to do design sketching, and design rendering. You know we want people to come to Art Center. I mean the reason why I go around the world, why in 2 weeks I’ll be in Mexico and couple weeks after that in Brazil and Columbia is because of the fact that we know how difficult it is to get in to Art Center and we wanna give you every resource possible.
So if you’re willing to do the work you can get in to the school.
Let’s see. Santiago, I know that narrative is necessary but a time on us we have to show our projects what is known. I did not plan use spending with this small ones so you, ah! Yeah! That’s a great question. Santiago asks frequent question about you know portfolios in general. Telling a narrative in how long should a portfolio be. And you know how do you judge that in this raises something that I’ve notice over the years which is I think in general a good portfolio communicates on multiple levels at the same time. Now, what I mean by that is I always like to describe like the worst case scenario which is the worst case scenario is a flite on a Friday afternoon.
The person who’s reviewing your portfolio has looks through I don’t know 30, 40, 50 portfolios and their eyes are tired, and just out of bad luck your portfolio comes up next.
If your portfolio communicates on multiple levels you’re helping yourself.
And what I mean by multiple levels is there’s that surface level of like worst case scenarios. Somebody those not have a lot of time they flip to your portfolio can they understood what they’re seeing in a relatively rapid environment you know. And impart of that is how well those your portfolio communicate visually. One of the pit falls that I’ve seen and I wanna stir everybody away from this pit fall who’s at least thinking Art School. Again I can’t speak about professional but I can speak about Art School. Is this idea that text has equal weight to image? It doesn’t because if you burried in your portfolio like the nuggets, the important thing about your project. You know your design all hinges upon these 2 or 3 sentences in this long paragraph and that contains the insight well guess what there is a chance that because of time limitations maybe somebody didn’t read that entire paragraph.
And one of the questions you should fundamentally ask yourself is if somebody is looking at this document and there are prosper time, and they visually turning the pages,
“Is my portfolio communicating what it needs to? Is it communicating the big picture, the big ideas?
And this touches upon another thing and there’s another good point that I wanna raise with everybody. The importance of clarity in the beginning of the project often times when I’ve notice is that I’ve seen some amazingly skilled portfolios with great ideas but the first couple of pages did not set the stage. So what happens is you have this Department Chair who sees great work but now you’re asking them to spend mental energy piecing together what their seeing. And I think one of the best formats to think about is about,
“How do I state my case in the beginning? How do I make things clear?” and this also touches upon the idea of your composition on a portfolio page.
How many elements should be on that page? How dense should it be? And there’s no right to answer to it but it is an issue that I’d recommend the people think about. When you’re lying out your pages, when you’re sizing your sketches, when you’re determining, where this is rendering go? How many sketches should I have on that page? Think about how you can use composition and scale and the position of the sketches on the page to direct your viewer’s eyes around that page. You know just like you’re composing an old master painting. You know and the tear and the limberness with which you know make a larger institution decided where certain characters and I that painting went. It wasn’t random it was because they consciously wanted your eye to be moving around that page. And I think a lot of times people neglect that. You know they offer up standard portfolio where every designs sketch is the same proportion and there’s nothing to kind of direct your eye around it. I would just emphasize to you guys that maybe
Think about the visual elements that you have at hand that might help you in visually emphasizing things in that page so that your person’s glams and the way they look around that page is you’re directing that, you’re leading that.
And that’s one way of like setting up the stage. Now, I wouldn’t kind of imply the text is not important, it is. But I think it’s how do you strategically use text. You know the way I look upon text is theirs things like the call out right words just like a single line of text and you got you know an oral that points to an element of your design. And those things are important and necessary and then you got the more explanatory text. And you know that the way that the more explanatory text work is I think you should ask yourself, “Is everything being visually communicated?” and if it is well then that explanatory text is kinda like the icing on the cake. It’s there if someone’s wanna dive in. And this is what I mean but portfolio communicating on multiple levels.
You got the visual level that immediately conveys your message but then you’ve got the textual level that well guess what maybe somebody really likes this idea.
Maybe they love this page. Well the text that’s there is like gives an opportunity to take more of a deep dive into you know what you’re thinking about. So I think having a communicate on those multiple levels can be advantageous for you.
Okay, on to the next question. Let’s see John. But don’t you think of portfolio is a pretty small window to get an idea. Yeah, it is. I agree to that sentiment. Yeah, and I think portfolio is kind of like it’s the best of all possible evils you know sure, I think. And this also speaks to like you know for like example our graduate Industrial Designer program they don’t just rely on portfolios. For the graduates Industrial Design Program they look super close at the essays they interview students before they admit them. And you I think the logistic of something like Product Design undergrad or Transportation Design undergrad we have to rely upon the portfolios it’s an incomplete picture of somebody but it’s the best of all possible evils.
Clue, okay. I guess she’s surrounding with John. Christof, oh! Okay.
(54:13) Chou-Tac Chung: Just a quick —
(54:16) David Salow: Oh! (Laughing) Apparently, Cristal knows me with weird shoes. You have to realize Cristal I work in an Art School so the weird shoes only narrows it down to about 20 people that I’ve meet before. Entertainment Design, yeah that’s a tough program to get into because they ask for 4 different categories of work. They ask for character design, environment design, a prop design, and vehicle design. We can talk offline about what needs to go into that portfolio.
Juaquin, Industrial Designer blend as art, fantastic! Then you already know design sketching so then we just kinda talk about how you transition that into a car portfolio. There’s a lot of overlap between those 2 areas so just send me what you have and I can work with you from there.
Service Design, I don’t know what that is. Chou-Tac, do you know what Service Design is?
(55:18) Chou-Tac Chung: No, not sure about it neither.
(55:26) David Salow: Okay. I don’t know do you have a question for me, Chou-Tac or anything?
(55:33) Chou-Tac Chung: Sure.
(55:34) David Salow: I think that’s the last. Oh, no! Oh, wait there’s more. I didn’t scroll down. Sorry I didn’t realize there was. I was looking at the screen, god! Oh, patting myself on the back on cloud got through all the questions and that’s pretty good and then I scrolled down and I realize. (Laughs).
(55:50) Chou-Tac Chung: (Laughs).
(55:53) David Salow: (Laughs). Let me, give me a second I gotta go get my cup of coffee. It’s still early in the morning.
(56:00) Chou-Tac Chung: They say, “where world be low this calling?” (Laughs).
(56:04) David Salow: Which is great! I’m so happy that people have questions and like I said I’m gonna answer everyone that anyone wants. But I’ll skip over some of the ones like I don’t know what’s Service Design is. Sorry, Needy. And then let’s see. Can you suggest awesome references for design a portfolioof development? Yeah! I mean Chou-Tac’s tutorials are fantastic.
(56:29) Chou-Tac Chung: Thank you.
(56:30) David Salow: You know a design sketching and you know I think that’s such a core important skill.
You know for Product Design, for Transportation Design, for Entertainment Design. It’s a different language, “right?” than illustration.
It’s figuring out the most efficient way to communicate your ideas visually. The more that you can practice that and get good at that and convey you know the great thing about sketching is that it does reflect the time that you put into it.
You know on the surface it seems really simple you know. You can learn these elements of a language and use them to communicate but the more time you put into it the more your sketches approach that level of effortlessness. Where it’s like it just feels natural you know.
I think everyone’s probably had that experience of when you first start out sketching that your outline is super heavy and the sketches feel like they’re way down.
And that because your figure in things out and the more time and effort in the same way that you were aspiring to become a concert pianist you know the more time and effort you just pit into the practice part of it the more end result reflects that fluency and comfortableness. And that’s like when you’re talking about skill when it comes to portfolio is that it’s something a level that reflects the time that you put in.
Let’s see. What practice one need to do from India to pass Art Center? Define what’s program you want and then make your portfolio reflect with that program you wants to seek. Can you show one Transportation Design portfolio a demo to make? Oh, god! I get that question all the time. Do you guys have any demo portfolios? And the answer is no.
(58:49) Chou-Tac Chung: (Laughs).
(58:50) David Salow: And there’s a couple of reasons for it.
The most important reason is the minute we give out a demo portfolio we will condemn ourselves.
We’ll receive thousands of versions of that one portfolio. You know it’s what I was saying before about a good portfolio strikes a balance between showing the department the basic things they want to see but then also having like the strength then the fortitude to break from that and to show them something different that element of surprise I was talking about. So having sample portfolio I think unfortunately well what you need to do is go to google and type Transportation Designs Sketching and you can see thousands of images of Transportation Design. So you can familiarize with the language and then it’s like figuring out well, “how do I use that language to break and show something new and interesting?”
(1:00:00) Chou-Tac Chung: Few years ago I remember I was watching on TV that was like footage. It was about a French brand of transportation. We have video on renew I don’t remember but one of the decision maker of the Design studio actually said that he refuse to show any of his sketches of course to his team because he was worried that his team would have forever on free inspired of whatever he has done because he was a decision maker. So because of this way it don’t want to give the direction of he think is good or not and that’s exactly the thing for the portfolio. We have to figure out ourselves, which message what we want to convey to our self. And not being like I would say polluted by something that is consider good because we all have something to put on the table. And hopefully this is what going to be popping out in the school that we are going to apply for.
(1:00:56) David Salow: Yeah, it such an interesting question, isn’t it? That the question of influence because on the one hand I think as an designer who I’m in you know I come from my background before Art Center I came from one of Fine Art world. You know the question of influence is such an interesting one because on the one hand like you do wanna absorb all the great things that exist in the world. All of the great designers who are there and what they have to say but then it’s almost like a conscious forgetting words like,
“Oh, okay. Well now I’ve seen all of this work and now I’ve got to come up with something new and something different.
And that’s the challenge of the portfolio, right? Is to kind of always walk that line between getting something that’s understandable and recognizable but at the same time having the strength to be like, “I’m just gonna be through with this idea out there.”
I’m always partial to the students who take that chance to come up with something different because I think the great things are the things that were people taken chances.
And sometimes you fall flat on your face and it doesn’t work but even if you do I think people will fundamentally respect that person who’s willing to think differently.
Okay. So let’s see. Can you suggest good references? I already talk about them. Books and websites I’ve talk about that. I wanna do Transformation Design in America initially to stop.
Oh! This is also, the structures of another question to for like a younger student who’s like in India well maybe not even in India but in anywhere outside of the U.S. There are multiple ways to study Transformation Design in Art Center. Yes, the ideal way to go would be to become a full time student but often times student who comes from us from overseas maybe they don’t have the car sketching skills yet or maybe they don’t have the required thoughtful score, the English language.
There‘s an institution like right close to the Art Center called Pasadena City College. And that school gives student’s international student’s visas. That school has the design program. That school is very inexpensive. And that school feeds a ton of students into Art Center.
So even if you’re like in 11th grade or getting close to graduating from a foreign high school and you look at Transportation Design and you’re thinking well I don’t think I could ever do that. You can! You can come out. Art Center also teaches classes at night I’ve taken them myself.
There are basic introduction to Transportation Design classes thought by car designers who work at Honda and Mile stock who graduated from Art Center who feel such a strong connection to the school that they enjoy coming giving up their Thursday and Friday nights teaching beginning car design to students and love those class. Those classes are amazing I still take them today because there they’re typically thought by people directly in that industry. What were car des’igns? I think there are 50 or 60 different studios in Los Angeles alone. Los Angeles is big laboratory for car design. You know the city where everyone owns a car and where every major car company has one of their major studios. It’s kind of in work down here. It’s something that everyone thinks about. So for car design L.A. is a great place to be and be place to go it’s definitely Art Center.
Chris, does a portfolio gain more consideration for displaying a lot of techniques as part of the ideation showcase even the result doesn’t look very pretty but it does.
Yeah! I mean, again it touches on this idea that sometimes you may not have the best sketching skill in the world but you’re telling the story. You’re visually telling the story of your design process. I’ve seen sometimes those portfolios be successful as well.
In addition, I wanna know the balance of portfolio analysis or research for IO 3D modeling. Okay, 3D modeling if you know how to do it you can include it but we would much only included if you’ve got the hand sketching and hand rendering skills already adequately displayed. Analysis and research sometimes I’ve notice with Product Design or Transportation Design in the beginning of the portfolio they have something like a persona. Where they will identify the bare of this car or they will talk about the user of this product. I think those things are usually limited to a page or 2 and they are very briefly look at. I do think the research; the most important research is more on the form level. So it’s more like well and this another thing at least for car designs. I’ve notice that those portfolios are the most successful are the ones that in the very beginning have a good idea of what their goal is. And what I mean by this is rather by starting a portfolio saying, “I’m gonna design my dream sports car.” You pick something specific and say. “I’m designing a 2 Sider Roadster for BMW for the year 2022. And by choosing something specific then you work with in certain constrains. So you’re designing a Roadster for BMW well guess what that cars gonna have kidney grills. That car’s gonna have to respond to the 3 or 4 or 5 different Roadsters that already exist for BMW the history should have too respond their designed language that’s part of BMW.
So the more specific you can be in your early stages about finding what it is you want to design.
I think the easer is to kind of show how your rating on certain things and how you break from certain things.
(1:07:38) Chou-Tac Chung: That’s actually the limitation that makes us more creative. Some people see this kind of restrictions us a constrain but actually this is what you’ve make the designer job which say more easier because you know which direction you can take, you know how to jump fun idea to another and somehow you won’t get lost whenever you want to explain your project as borrowed be easier to justify all your choices. And I believe this is what people are looking for.
(1:08:07) David Salow: Yeah, yeah! You know and I’ve notice it too. I think one of the things I’ve notice is the more you can formalize what you want your end product to look like.
The easier it is to avoid the blockages that I’ve seen certain students have where it’s like when you first start out on a project it’s like there’s like an infinite Universe impossible things that you could potentially do.
The start of the abstract notion of the sports car you could bit yourself over the head going. Will do I make a mini-auto, do I make a BMW, do I make a Lamborghini, do I combine them and the more you have a sense of what your end point is I think that the more it can help facilitate and make easy the beginning stages which often times are some of the most difficult.
Okay. So Environmental Design is a program that train students in 2 areas. It trains them in interior architecture and industrial design. So Environmental Design is best embodied, the best example I can give of Environmental Design is the retail store, the apple store. And when Steve Jobs decided that was going to create a retail environment and really think about you know something different with all previously bought our laptops from electronic stores and maybe online. So his idea was to reconceive of what your experience would be you know with the genius part and everything like that. So when he decided that’s what he wants to do he actually didn’t go to an architecture firm. He went to an Environmental Design firm. Because what
An Environmental Design firm does it focuses on crafting the entire experience someone has in a public space.
So any public space you go into these days whether it’s a hotel, whether it’s a movie theater, whether it’s a stadium, whether it’s an amusement park, whether it’s going to the airport, the environment that you experience is what Environmental Designers do. They design the interior architecture so they work on programs like sketch app. And there’s another program which name I forget that they use. But they’re also focus on Industrial Design so they focus on furniture design and lightning design. And by the way the guy who designed where I mention the apple store than is Tim Kobe. He graduated from Art Center in Environmental Design maybe 10- 15 years ago. Another project that he’s done was if you ever flew on virgin planes they have like this really cool like purple edgier he redesign that as well. So Environmental Design covers designing those areas that are just any place that the public goes and it’s designing the inside the experience the way somebody. It includes everything from graphic design and wall graphics to the architectural space to the furniture and the lighting and that’s really what. We had a lot of students comes to us actually in this major who’ve studied architecture purpose not necessary but a lot times people go with the architecture and may think,
“Oh! I’m gonna be an architect.” And the reality of architecture is you study architecture and you adopt working for a firm and you end up working on a very specific part of a larger project.
And I think the benefit of Environmental Design is rather than being that specialist you kinda focus on designin one room of a larger structure so you’re more than designer. So Environmental Designers work for architecture firms. The thing that I wanna clarify is it’s not a degree in architecture. So it doesn’t have that Engineering component where you know architect can analyze plan, look at plans, and officially sign of for them. By=ut that only comes after getting years and years of licensing in great Asians and a background in Engineering as well as design.
Whereas Environmental Design is just pure design you’re creating that experience, you’re working with architects who are you’re working alongside you but you’re that person who has the concept of what somebody is going to feel when they’re going to a public space.
Master’s degree, Santiago, ask a question. The master’s degree is kind of unique thing it depends on the major. So for instance like the master’s degree in Transportation Design at Art Center is more about transportation systems and it’s more about kind of the upper levels of like if I wanted to work for a car design firm or I wanted to work for a city or a municipality you’re looking at the entire eco-system and there’s a business component. Same thing with the graduate in Industrial Designer Art Center is looking at the system of consumption.
And how do you design something? How do you design a system rather than an individual object? I mention before we have a lot of students in Art Center who have previous degrees to do an undergrad program because the undergrad program in Art Center are so specific. I mean if you went from engineering into car design you’re not gonna duplicate anything you’ve learned as an engineer previously. So just because you are previous undergrad does not necessarily mean that you wanna be looking at the grad programs. The grad programs in general are there for designers who want to transition perhaps from a design rule to more of managerial rule. So for instance our Industrial Design program has a partnership with an NBA program where you can get a joint NBA masters at the same time at the Jarkal School. So you know it’s a kind of a different thing. When I’m coming to India I have to figure that out. I’d love to get more advice on that from Indian students. It’s the first time I’ll be going and I have to write a proposal and figure out what time and year to go but I hope to come next year.
Interior Designer, if you wanted to become an Environmental Designer which means to add on the element of Industrial Design. Then Environmental Design might be a good program to look at.
What do you think mentor should look for a concept where a lot for the graphic and renders? Product Design is kind of a mix carvery between the value of good concepts in your portfolio versus the value of the presentation might the way I look at it myself is that I don’t think of myself as qualified or equip to really look at a car design or Product Design portfolio and pretend to evaluate it like a designer. One of the great things about doing what I do is I evaluated just on how it visually communicates. I have liked a pair of ice that are not really influence by having a strong background in one design field. So I look at everything equally. I look at it with a question of, “Does this portfolio communicate well?” You know this person’s core ideas “are they coming through?” And if they’re not, “what can we do to formulate this better in terms of the presentation of the portfolio?” that’s really where I’m good at.
You know I have designed preference too. I love car design, I love product design passionately and I have strong opinion but I try to keep them to myself as much as I can. And I try to really analyze “how is this portfolio communicating as a visual document?” because my rule on the process is to make sure that your ideas are communicated to the depth that they need to be communicated so that you’re getting your message across.
(1:16:23) Chou-Tac Chung: Yeah, I remember like when I was student is that when
even though our major is product design we needed to have double hats. One hat was in product design field and another hat works more in visual communications.
And it was also kind of taking inspiration like how packaging was doing like as you said previously about compositions. How we have to direct people eyes? You don’t when you does the both. We don’t want the people, the audience to come and see it both and then it they pick up randomly what they could get the information’s but we have to direct them, their eyes. And like we can pre-plan the direction we’re going to see the thing like a story.
(1:17:04) David Salow: Yeah, it’s such an interesting thing to communication and general because you do have like this core idea. You might have a great concept but that concept is limited to the extent that you can communicate it well. Every year in Art Center we have something called the car classic it happens in October and like our famous alumni in the car design world all come back to pass and they put on this conferences and there’s has been a car show on campus. And I was talking with one of the designers who’s I won’t mention any names or anything but he is very well known in the car design world. And I was asking about the success of another designer had. And why that person was successful? The thing that I took from that conversation was so interesting to me was he said that
This person’s designs won’t necessarily the best designs in the room but he could communicate and sell those concepts better than anyone else.
And I heard that was just like a light bulb went off and I was like that makes complete sense to me. Like I understand a hundred percent what you are saying.
It’s not like the world is like this perfect meritocracy were the best design is always necessarily rise to the top. We like to think that they do but often times it’s how you present your ideas and that kind of cuts to the core what I dealt with portfolio.
It’s like “how do I help this person present their ideas as best as I can see them for as they can be communicated?” So anyway I just wanted to share that cause it really a eye opening moment for me. Cause I always work under the idea that you can enable that just the best design rise at the top.
(1:18:59) Chou-Tac Chung: Literally because it’s really important to have this on mind because then you know how to play with the rules. (Laughs).
(1:19:06) David Salow: Yeah!
(1:19:08) Chou-Tac Chung:
And those candidates can come to see you personally with portfolio then get your feedback and re-apply later?
Is it something that you’re sensitive to?
(1:19:18) David Salow: Oh, yeah! Thank you for mentioning that. A lot time’s student will not think about admissions. They have this very kind of life changing concept like, “I’m gonna apply to the school and if I get in my life is going to change one way and if I don’t get in well then my life is gonna change another way.”
I have the benefit of seeing most of the students who applied in Art Center and there’s a fair amount of students who applied 2 or 3 or 4 times.
And each time they do which “well I didn’t get in this time but I’m not giving up.” If you are applying and don’t get in all you need to do is email me or Skype me and I can give you the reasons why the Department Chair thought there could be areas for improvement and the effect that applying more than one. I’ve notice over the years that more often or not a Department Chair will look at somebody who’s apply more than once and say, “You know what this person really wants to come here.” I think Art Center is a unique place because of the fact we don’t teach foundation year. We have this built in expectation that people are going to Art Center at deferent stages of their life. As suppose to others school where you look at almost any other Art School. You look at their incoming class it’s mostly 19, 20 year old. At Art Center the incoming freshman could be 19 or 20 or could be 25 or 30 I find people 40 years old come to Art Center and start a degree that I think we are in general and institution that has a very diverse range of ages at this book.
Okay. Let’s see. Somebody mention Scott Roberts. Yeah, go ahead.
(1:21:15) Chou-Tac Chung: David, just a question to jump on this is that “Does it means that there is no age limit to join the design industry?
(1:21:24) David Salow: Ah, that’s a good question. I can’t speak to that. You know I really can’t because I don’t wanna imply that there is zero age limits to the design industry because I don’t know. To be honest, I don’t know if there are any pre-existing biases individuals might have when it comes to a particular work place. I can only speak for my experience which is the experience of being in Art Center for a long time and seems student come through. And keeping in touch with them in seeing where they end up working. And for my limited experience it’s about the quality of the work and the potential you show, and the ideas you express. And you know I don’t know if there are certain areas or certain companies that have biases because I’m not on the level. I can only really talk about any total experience. And you know I think if you come out of school and you’ve got the skills, and you’ve got the concepts, and you’re able to sell your ideas that those are gonna be the things that determine your success much more than your age.
Somebody mentioned Scott Robertson that’s a great resource too. Scott Robertson was the original Chair of Entertainment Design at Art Center. What his area of specialty is Entertainment Design so that’s basically Entertainment Designers how you apply Industrial Design to the entertainment industry. Drawing spaceship, weapons, and guns, and things like that. He got a fantastic bool called How to Draw. It lays out a lot of entertainment design there. Let’s see, Book or website help in design sketching against Scott Robertson’s a good one. Of course Chou-Tac’s got a wonderful of series of tutorials and I will recommend him highly as well. Sketchbook here you go.
Let’s see. Can you do masters of design in any top schools perhaps of being a diploma in car design? Well Shesheng, you know one the things I would say is that I recommend looking at the industry and seeing in particular what is the normal degree for this industry. So Transportation Design the general expectation is that you are a car designer with bachelors in Transportation Design. And that’s like why so many students who have previous degrees will get a second degree from Art Center because the undergrad program is in Transportation Design and it’s there to train you as a car designer.
Now, I would say please avoid the mistake of just choosing a master program just because of the fact that you have a previous undergrad degree.
And I know that there are schools that will offer a master’s degree specifically to cater to those people who had previous degree.
And it’s kind of like a quick way of getting you know some sort of qualifications. But I would just say republish our curriculum for every one of our majors and if you would look at the Transportation Design curriculum in our website you will get a real sense of just how intensive that preparation is. Honestly that’s what I love about the scope. If you look at any of our programs and you look at just the shared number of classes in each one of those majors I have this feeling that the students by the time they leave Art Center and they’ve made it through that really rigorous training. Just have a skill set that is unique for the industry.
Okay. Let’s see. Paula was really into design but never sure on the sketching, fundamental sketching. I love it. I love drawing the ellipsis circle and lines everyday like that’s relaxing to me. I don’t know Erwin. Every one’s timeline is different but the fact that you enjoyed doing that group work of ellipsis circles and lines. That’s speaking language that I fully appreciate and love.
When I started to take design sketching classes at Art Center and I was feeling up books with straight line. Like even just dozen practice of like how to draw a straight line over and over again.
There’s more of course than that, right? I mean the fundamentals are great but you gonna have learn the how to present the ideas.
And you gonna have to have the ideas as well you know I think that’s important.
Someone put a link to the no man workshop that’s great no one was started by three graduates from Art Center specifically as a means of training people to have the skills, to be ready for the Art Center. You know at least in California but also in New York and then other major cities in United States. There are a lot of preparatory it kind of means that help fill in that foundation near. You know I think there are many ways to get your foundations together and if you don’t necessary have to go to a school for foundation near. That’s the great option that Art Center offers. Basically we say all of this work before you come here. Like become as good as you can in design sketching and we’ll offer you. We’ll gonna drop you right into a very intensive program. And so we offer a different approach which is it’s sometimes it takes longer to get in to Art Center but there is I think a benefit to it. Obviously I wouldn’t work for them and feel so passionally about it if didn’t believe that.
Okay. Let’s see. Essays and the type of content design so essay is for us I mean it depends in grad schools maybe they matter a little bit more but in our undergrad program we are so focus on portfolio that often times we’re look at your essay to get a sense of who you are and we wanna get a sense to your personality. And I know others schools that have foundation near. Look at more of a balance between grades and essay and portfolio but that’s because it’s the admission staff of those schools that make the determinations. At Art Center when we have the Department Chair for a few hours a week that person typically is focus like a laser beam on the portfolio because their number one question that I hear all the time is “if I admit this person into a program how are they going to do? Are they going to survive? Are they going to do well?” And the essays don’t really tell us that what tell us that is the portfolio. How do I represent an architectural portfolio sheet at its best? Send me maybe images and we can talk about the specifics about on that. Is there a transfer of masters in architecture? Again it’s Environmental Design; it’s a little bit different than architecture.
(1:29:11) Yeah, again John I agree with you too and Chou-Tac as well it’s like the question of influences such a great question and it’s like part of the reason why I think you build up your fundamentals as you’re building up that strength and that courage to be influence but also to be able to break from it too.
Okay. (Laughs). Thank you Santiago as we say here in the States that’s the $64,000 question. The one about scholarship and that’s a referred suit like a TV show it’s not particular to a dollar. So the scholarship question for international students.
We do offer scholarships for international students. The scholarships are 100% base on merit.
So what that means is how much is does your portfolio appeal to that Department Chair. I would say if you’re interested with scholarships the best advice I can give you is work with me to get your portfolio into the format that I think would be most successful. And just to know who you are. You know it’s not like I can make a case for but it’s like if I have an understanding of what your background is and we’ve chatted. When your portfolio comes up for review I can at least provide that additional information to that Department Chair. So please feel free to reach out to me.
Let’s see. Transportation Design 3-4 projects in car design we look for design sketching and marker based rendering. For Environmental Design maybe send me your current portfolio needy and we’ll talk about how to transition maybe you have some products that are similar to Environmental Design. It might furniture design but we can also talk about ideas for special design.
Environmental Design basically lightning interior commercial designing, yeah. I mean that’s a good way of describing it. I really describe it as more experience design because it’s not just lighting interior and commercial it’s everything from environmental graphics to architecture to yes the furniture enlightening it’s the overall experience. It’s the concept behind what you want somebody to feel when they are in a public place space.
How do designers know that work? I don’t know that’s like of another level of design question that I couldn’t answer because I don’t want to give am impression that I’m a designer. I’m a focus person around portfolio and admissions and so while I do see radical things all the time and I do see how people react to them I couldn’t tell you about like how that’s going to be successful or whether it’s always a little bit of uncertainly.
Preparing master’s school design program what do I think of global design? I don’t know that’s a difficult question.
(1:32:25) Chou-Tac Chung: May I jump on something about? Just to jump on the question of Sameran is that she’s not worried about the success of the product about the transportation design but it could be as well for product design is that I believe that as you said for application for a school and for application for a job is actually different? As long as there is still this student thing in the context I will say that
The most important thing is not really the success in the market of the product but more about how you’re going to justify everything of your but you would present your product.
Well, actually you should take advantage of this context of being applying for school is that you can go crazy, you can take bold decisions to show how far you can go.
Because how high you can go you will be always being able to go lower for something more commercial if needed within the industry.
If you’re sure you can go super high then later on we can walk on how to go something more commercial I would say.
(1:33:35) David Salow: Yeah.
(1:33:36) Chou-Tac Chung: So don’t be. I would recommend to don’t be too shy on your ideas as long as you can justify what is going to attract people attention.
(1:33:46) David Salow: Thank you that’s perfect. That such a good clarification it really coincide with everything that I believe as well.
Your high school portfolio is the place to take those chances because no one’s gonna criticize you for taking chances.
What to criticize you for is if you imperfectly describe and back up your craziness than sometimes will people will think well it’s not really justified. But I think taking chances I mean you know I keep on thinking when I first read that question I was thinking of the design that Chris Bangle did for BMW. One of the BMW that he made, he designed the back roof of the car at the back of trunk area. And it was really elevated and backset if you ever seen it.
They actually jokingly call it the bangle butt because it’s not you know cars before had a very kind of low and slick trunk area and this was raise up. And at the time people thought, a lot of people in the industry thought it was the ugliest thing in the world and then you fast forward 10 years later and I always laugh because as when I’m driving I’m like every single car’s trunk now looks exactly like that. And sometimes when you’re taking those chances the reaction you’ll get is not always a positive one but again if you could backup your concepts with the sketching, with presenting it in a pleasing way.
Could I share my email I.D.? Of course. ( Typing).
This is my email address at Art Center. Sorry it’s supposed to be –ed at the end. (Typing).
And this is my Skype. (Typing).
Okay, so moving on. (Reads).
I don’t know if I can answer that maybe Chou-Tac could answer that better that I can. You know I think maybe we emphasize a lot more the traditional evidence of traditional design sketching and design rendering as indication that you’re ready for our program and maybe the industry once can be more digitally base and don’t have to emphasize the sketching side as much. But I’ll defer to Chou-Tac on that one because I’m sure he probably knows better than I do.
(1:36:53) Chou-Tac Chung: Actually it’s mostly so depending about the industry if you are presenting to a designer agency or a clients. So that would be difference like what people are going to look for might be different. Let’s say you want to work for product design agency and I want to look for something which is especially when you’re fresh graduates something very close to what you have done as a student because again its referring to what we were saying early. If you can to real far to your concept you can always going down to something more commercial because this is what when you start a project within like the face of a research this what they want to look for.
Like how wide variety of project you can provide? How deep into the concept you can give and so you have really this kind of appetite that you can give to your project and this is what they want. But then if you want to look with a client which is going to be more result oriented then see the end product, and see for which brand you have been walking for and all this things. So you have to emphasis different things in your portfolio. One might be more into the research face of course to find the result would count but they want to see how you think so this is how they can use your brain into various project.
When if you look for clients then they might want to look for your inner result which is going to be how you able to provide a good quality project for them. And also you need to identify who is going to look for your portfolio and your projects because you might also want to direct your communication like who is the decision maker at the moment you are talking with. Because let’s say if you look for the HR who might not be design oriented because HR might be walk in to higher different type of profile might be not specialize in design. This people might be more into making sure that your reference are good. Because we might not have eyes to judge to your work but if you have good reference of clients so this people will be insure, will be more easier for them to justify the choice to present you to the next reveal to the design team for example or to the clients. So yeah, let’s try to think to whom you are talking to and how you can direct your message.
(1:39:19) David Salow: Yeah, I think that’s really, really good advice.
I always like to encourage anyone to really try to put yourself in the shoes of the person who eventually will look at your portfolio because I think the initial impulse towards a portfolio is more inward.
A lot of times when people first start out with the portfolio they think about that the portfolio as the out word expression of what you’re thinking. And they don’t think about it so much as a communicative document as something that you’re putting the emphasis on the portfolio to communicate your ideas in part of communication having a certain amount of empathy for your audience and trying to really think about who’s going to be looking at my portfolio and is one of each one of this pages communicating in the way it needs to communicate.
Okay. Is it possible to approach you for a portfolio for discussion for masters in Art Center in the industry? Yes, just reach out to me, Cavery. Gnomon is impasse as in Los Angeles it’s not in New York. Chris, I know Ashcan very well, I know the Ashcan in Metonmanhac, and I know the Ashcan Haudan Queens. We have ton of students who come out to Art Center from Ashcan. I was mentioning before about all of this prefatory academies that fill in foundation year, that produce students who are ready for Art Center guess what Ashcan, Gnomon they’re both two great places we can talk more about. Because I know certain places don’t have the design component which is part of the reason I’m sure you’re working with Chou-Tac and he is fill in those blanks. So I think that’s a great resource and then just work. Send to me what you have so far. I’m sorry to hear it was disappointment there but we also have night program out in Art Center so that we can talk about that. How can you make a good portfolio, David? Okay, well a lot of that was maybe stuff that in depends on the major really so we can talk individually about goes into a good portfolio for any individual major.
Is there an online basic foundation program for foreign students? We are working on one. We are trying to do one. We recognize that the foundation year is something needs to be field in and we are in the early stages of figuring out how best to provide those resources online. You don’t need to do a foundation in order to come in Art Center. You just need to acquire the specific skill set that is applicable to your major. And a lot of times you can do it on your own. You can do that through videos, you can do that working with Chou-Tac on design sketching. And if there are other areas you need well then just reach out to me but show me what you have so far. I think that’s a really important first step.
Okay, email address I think I put below so it’s there. Send me your portfolio, yeah. Anybody here please send me your portfolio. Send me what you have. If you’re top with me you I can also let you know when I’m going to be in your country. And when I’m going to be visiting and we can meet one on one and to your sketchbook somethings like that. Do we offer full rides scholarships in international students? In my experience I can’t recall a situation where we gone up to full tuition in the beginning. We offer partial tuition scholarships it’s really going on to depend on where your portfolio is when we rank them. You know when we look through the portfolios the second time and determine what are the top one’s if you are near the top you’ll get a larger scholarship but to be honest with you it’s rare that we would go in the beginning all the way up to full tuition. We do have an apparatus emplace at the school that allows the students who are currently in the school to compete every term for additional scholarship money which is a way of adding on to the base line amount have you receive. Whatever base line tuition amount you would get, whatever scholarship amount you would get this something that will be guaranteed for the time you are at Art Center. It’s a figure, it’s amount that you can build on but it won’t be something like is reduce unless you’re gone extended academic probation and really don’t do well grade wise for a long period of time.
Let’s see. I can’t speak to other schools. I think a lot of we had students transfer from foundation programs because they’re seeking a program that is more focus that’s the common thing that are here. I don’t know for all of the students from the East Coast I can empathize with you that in terms of like the design in sketching in more of the concept art there’s not that infrastructure tends to be more old school out in East Coast. It’s a more traditional Art School base so lot of illustration stuff. I think the benefit of being in L.A. is like we live and breathe entertainment industry, we live and breathe concept work and you know whether it’s Noman out here, whether it’s Art Center at night, whether it’s you know a number of different programs. If you’re out in L.A. you won’t run out of opportunities to prepare your portfolio.
How much is the age influence the candidate selection? Not at all, it’s portfolio we are driven by portfolio.
Do you need a SAT course? Not unless you are in high school. For a whole if you are in high school and you’re applying before you graduate high school we want SAT’s. The moment you graduated high school we no longer look at them and they don’t matter as much. We do need to see them but it’s really we are so driven by portfolio that I’d focus on that.
Do you have a successful formula? There is no such thing as formula. I think the great thing about portfolios is it’s a mixture showing what they want to see but then thinking about how to creatively present it.
I would work individually with somebody to determine maybe what’s the right combination of elements and length some things like that. No entrance exam. I think that’s what makes us different than schools in China or India. We don’t believe in the idea that there’s one big entrance exam and that determines your life. It’s much more like if you want to do the work to get in the Art Center as long as it takes for you to do it that opportunity will always, always be there. So we don’t believe in that one moment that will determine your life forever. It’s more of a process. Some of our best students are people who show up having you know done 5 years somewhere else and it’s like they make a count. I love older students who come to Art Center because it’s like often times they give up things. It’s like, “Yes, I was in this carrier but I’m giving this up and I’m changing gears and changing my life around.” And the seriousness and intensity and passion that student has when you’re actively given something up to change your life that’s one of the best things about having a diverse group of ages at the school. Yeah, so I have a soft spot for that.
Let’s see older alumni. Okay. (Reads).
Bob, I think the answer to your question is I have to see your portfolio and I’d work with you as long as you want to kind of communicate your ideas.
Yeah, so Akram, 32 years old you won’t be alone in applying to Art Center. There are many people your age just send me you, again age doesn’t factor in its portfolio.
Can I get guidance about Sketch Art? I don’t know. Chou-Tac, do you know what that is? Sketch Art?
(1:48:13) Chou-Tac Chung: I don’t know.
(1:48:14) David Salow: Distance learning programs not yet. (Reads).
Yeah, I don’t know. The night programs are amazing I love them. I take them, I take those classes myself. Again the reason why Art Center those no undergrad program for concept are I think it would be the easiest in the world to start when and who knows maybe we will at some point. But you know the reality of this is that many people who have previous undergrad degrees will do the undergrad entertainment design program. And I don’t know if that will change at some point but it’s not going to reproduce. This those bring up the question. So let’s say hypothetic you have a degree in illustration and you wanted to do concept art at Art Center. The classes you’ve taken in that illustration degree there’s no guarantee that they’ll transfer over but if there is an opportunity to transfer over studio based classes so that you’re not having to reproduce what you’ve done somewhere else we try to work with that. Again it’s up to the Department Chair, it’s based on your portfolio, it’s based on your transcript but we’re not gonna ask you to reproduce what you’ve done somewhere else. So who knows at some point we might have undergrad program for concept art but for now. I’d recommend the plan key undergrad program.
Concept art academy: Cozone, Red Engine, Gnomon. All of those are after school academies that teach foundation here in an around Los Angeles. They send us a ton of students.
What’s the fastest way to learn design sketching well you found it, work with Chou-Tac it’s a great, great resource. Go straight into illustration, portfolio. (Reads).
Yeah, again if you don’t get in your first try you know we’ve rolling admissions at Art Center. You can apply multiple times per year.
You know if you apply for fall and don’t get in apply for the spring. If you apply for the spring and don’t get in there are some programs at the summer not everyone does. But if at least you fall at spring you can apply in multiple times you know twice a year.
Isaac, I know people are still made in typing but I think I made it to the bottom of the questions.
Yeah, okay. Audrey, was nowhere you complied to undergrad of graduate with BF? Of course you can. Yeah, again transfer it really is, you can’t take classes at Art Center while you are in another school. You have to become a student for us but you know we had a lot of students who apply for our programs to previous degrees. We try to transfer over any applicable studio classes or any humanities classes. It’s the studio classes are going to be based on your portfolio plus transcript and some to be determined by the Department Chair.
I feel like I’ve been talking, maybe if next time we’ll do this we’ll do something video related. Cause it’s always a little bit disembodied.
(1:51:44) Chou-Tac Chung: I will make it will be fun.
(1:51:47) David Salow: But yeah, I can’t tell if everyone is just like left the room or tired cause I’ve been talking forever you know at the certain point .
(1:52:02) Chou-Tac Chung: It reminds me the beginning of internet about the chatting box.
(1:52:05) David Salow: Well you know thing is when I visit schools or when I talk with people at person I can always kind of gage. Like I can see when some ones attention is just like okay please stop talking now they want me to stop but here is like I can just go on and on and at certain point would be like two people left in the chat room. Okay so we have more questions.
(1:52:28) Chou-Tac Chung: Hey, David just go ahead, I will ask my question later.
(1:52:36) David Salow: (Reads). Ares there any difficulties to students who belong to mechanical engineering and want to do PG? I don’t know what’s PG in transportation design is. Is that undergrad, maybe? There shouldn’t be any difficulties I mean it’s the portfolio. Do you have designs sketching skills or not? Can you sketch a car or not? That’s the big question.
(1:53:03) Chou-Tac Chung: The advice I remember like before I apply for my own design school in France. One thing that I have been thought is that nowadays there is a dissociation between the engineering part and the designing where it was kind of fusions of previously during the industrial age.
Last time when everything was more in just cold driven for the other capacities that they had to produce things it was more, “can we produce something?” And then we will look for the market that is getting to get that product. And nowadays is totally different it’s more of design oriented. Where we are going to be like most sociology oriented like we’re thinking first about the users and then we create the product later.
So if you come from mechanical engineering whenever you’re going to produce something for your portfolio just make sure that you won’t be driven by your engineering past. First it’s good for you guys to have this as also as well because it is a compliment but make sure that. You don’t limit your creativity from there.
(1:54:08) David Salow: I think that sounds like an advice to me. So do we have product design discipline? Yes, we are very well known for product design as a school.
Department Chair for ED which I assume as Entertainment Design prefers foreign students. (Laughs). I don’t know if that’s the case. I really think that we prefer the talented and creative students. The Department Chair for the Entertainment Design is actually originated from France, Guillaume Aretos. And he has works in the entertainment industry for decades.
I think you know we’re always excited when we see someone apply from overseas because I think when you’re making the effort to consider a school outside of your normal environment.
When you’re thinking about this idea that you’ll gonna move all the way to East Coast and spend 4 years at the school. I think there’s a receptivity that we have and an appreciation for what the courage that takes and you know but we are equally. I wanna stress that across the board we’re equally fair. I think the great thing about the school is you know instead of looking at all of these nebulous factors. You know what drives Art Center is portfolio. I mean we do look at your essay, we do look at your background, and we do look at your grades but what they play a secondary role to the central question of “How do you achieve the skill level appropriate for your major and not really drives everything?”
Is it possible to sign up for single courses instead of the major program? Art Center at night is a night program that’s open to the public individual courses in the undergrad program. We do have a special students status where students can come to Art Center for like a term or a year. It’s a different than applying as an undergrad student or a grad student. You would have to work with me and I could give you more information on that.
Shashang, can I send a portfolio to you? Yes, please do and don’t be scared because my opinion is not important. I mean I’m not the person who will decide if you get in. I’m merely there to help you to help you clarify what you wanna say in your portfolio often times the work that you most scared about, the work that you don’t think is good, and often times that can have the seeds of something really great there. So please, please, please just reach out to me and show me anything.
Not good with sketching, entire portfolio is 3D work. Please focus on sketching, Devanchu. Learn the skills it’s just important for us. (Reads).
No, no. I would say Art Center has a lot of students who come from Asia. And because there’s a lot of great schools here that trained students to have portfolios skills at the level we expect.
You know I think the reputation Art Center has in Asia and also kind of beat the culture of Art Center which is a very hard working serious institution.
I think that has a general appeal in countries in Asia so we do have terminal students from Asia but it’s like you know in two weeks I’m going down the Mexico and I’m going to be meeting with students in Mexico in 2 weeks. And then I’m going to Columbia and Brazil and then at some point next year I’ll be going to somewhere in Europe. I haven’t decided yet and I’ll be going to India so it much more about bringing in global students from around the world.
Email address, my email address is up there so just reach out to me main criteria is portfolio. So I think I know we had a few other people who are typing as well.
I’m an institution student graduate in the spring from Europe, BS Industrial Design Primary and Research. (Reads).
Yeah, there are a number of classes that Art Center at night. We have a visual communication class. We have a class called sketching for designers, we have the introduction to communication sketching class and the great thing about the night program is that 2 of those classes that I’ve mentioned are thought by senior faculty in Transportation and Product Design classes. It always blows my mind. I visit some of these classes sometimes and I see instructors who’ve been in Art Center for 30 years who are teaching the night class in beginning sketching. And I’m just like (amazed). The students out here sometimes don’t realize just how fortunate they are that numbers of our senior instructor’s teach these beginning classes at night. It such a valuable resource and it’s open to the public. It’s like, “we’re here to train people from the beginning if they want to.”
Okay, anybody else? (Reads).
Yeah, I’m excited to go. I really wanna go. I haven’t got approval for going to India yet but I really want to go because we had a lot of students. You know the interesting is we’ve been a lot of students. We always had students that interested in car design from India but we find a lot of students recently interested in interaction design. Which is you know designing interfaces and digital design and it’s also the major that typically sends us students on to work that google and facebook. Doing App. Design and Interface Design. It’s kind of like a hybrid between product design, graphic design, and digital design as well. And so the tech. industry being what it is. We had a lot of students interested in interaction design has a potential major.
So night classes anyone want an information on that just please email me and it’s just a case by case basis I can recommend individual night classes to you. And you know I would say for anyone who stick about night class just maybe just come up and see Art Center I would recommend. We haven’t had any video and I apologies for that but maybe in the future I’ll give you a video but I’m gonna send you a link to a short video on Art Center which will at least give you an idea of what the school looks like. I don’t know if anyone has seen pictures of Art Center but it’s a very kind of a dramatic looking place. Let’s see if I can send you a link.
Sorry by that. So that’s the Art Center video. It shows physically what the campus looks like. We are located on the top of the hill in Pasadena. It’s just a kind of a beautiful environment. If anyone ever is in Los Angeles I really, really recommend emailing me and setting up a time where I can meet with you one on one.
(2:02:29) Chou-Tac Chung: Ah, that’s cool.
(2:02:36) David Salow: Clue welcome, yeah.
(2:02:39) Chou-Tac Chung: David I was wondering how does it works for you the internship?
(2:02:44) David Salow: Oh, so internships I think last year just 2017. We had an over a hundred different companies. I’m gonna send you guys a list of internships just see you get an idea of exactly where our students end up working.
(2:03:10) Chou-Tac Chung: Cool.
(2:03:11) David Salow: And you know one of the great things about the school is if you click on that list what you’re gonna see is a lot of very well-known companies. And I think one of the reasons why they recruit so heavily in Art Center is because one of the challenges with interns is you don’t wanna spent a lot of time training them because at the certain point it become self-defeating.
If you gotta train somebody to do everything from the beginning then it’s almost more work than it’s worth but the value of the companies that coming to Art Center is they get somebody who has been focus in one field.
Probably for a year before they started interning and so there is more of an incentify thing for them to reach out and get somebody who’s been training to do product design for two years straight or entertainment design, or transportation design. So that link I sent to you guys is a list of last year’s internships.
I don’t know David skip question bachelor’s degree in mechanical engineering what is best to apply first for a major or working the industry? That is a personal decision. I think you know when you feel ready to engage in another career path that when I would recommend. The gateway to get into Art Center is you’re going to have to acquire the skills to get in. Like depending on your major you’re going that to demonstrate in your portfolio that you are ready to start Art Center. I think that the value of the approach that we have which is asking you to require basic skills before coming here is by the time you completed your portfolio to get in to the Art Center typically you will have a very good understanding of whether or not you’re on a right path. So it’s like rather than just apply to a school that would let you in base on the general portfolio and then you get there and you’re not sure’ if it’s the right place. The value of Art Center approaches by the time you completed your specialized portfolio it’s an encouragement and a way for you to really determined is are you in a right path before you start school which I think is a great thing.
Is it okay to apply for postgraduate degrees? My bachelor was engineering. Yeah, Akram just send me your portfolio we can kind of figure out whether its mix more sense to do undergrad or graduate work. So much of it is like a discussion of like should you apply for grad programs, should you apply for undergrad, either way is fine. Postgraduate degree that would be graduate school but it really depends.
Chou-Tac, what time is it in Japan now? It must be like for in the morning or something.
(2:06:35) Chou-Tac Chung: (Laughs). It’s 4 am.
(2:06:38) David Salow: (Laughs). You’re patients and stamina I really appreciate that. I think I would be half awake at this point. (Laughs)
(2:06:54) Chou-Tac Chung: I took a nap just before the chat. (Laugh).
(2:06:57) David Salow: Did you have caffeine as well?
(2:06:59) Chou-Tac Chung: Yeah, I had to.
Orange nap. (Laugh)
(2:07:6) David Salow: (Laughs) Okay.
(2:07:7) Chou-Tac Chung: A bottle of orange juice. (Laugh)
(2:07:10) David Salow: Ah, okay.
(2:07:12) Chou-Tac Chung: Yeah, I have to take a nap.
(2:07:16) David Salow: Ah, well thank you. I’m grateful for you guys.
I think what probably motivate both Chou-Tac and myself is this idea that we can help out people who are just starting out on the beginning path of you know trying to achieve something which isn’t being a creative individual is not easy.
Yeah, right? It’s always gonna be about you know how hard you work and how passionate you are about what you do. I think you know for those of us who are in a position where we can help you out. I think that’s what motivates us. I mean that probably why it’s 4am in Japan and Chou-Tac’s up and I’m up here on Saturday morning. And I think we’re probably as grateful for you if not more as you guys might be for us. Because it’s a privilege to work with you guys.
(2:08:10) Chou-Tac Chung: Okay so it’s a really pleasure. (Laughs). I often like tried to remember before I started to enroll my design school all the information that I would have needed at this moment to take decision earlier. I also came from like a background studying business in I.Q. for 3 years and maybe if I had some people I knew before that I would have good directing toward designs. I don’t know but whatever I had made I don’t regret anything because that’s part of what I am today but I tried to help out whether who is passionate that there is something great if the full of the passion and dedicate seriously and how you are dedicated to.
(2:08:54) David Salow: it’s funny you know I’m motivated by the same impulse.
I‘ve never really had any exposure to design school. I never even knew they existed.
I didn’t know Art Center existed when I was in high school. So I just went to the best University that I could get in to and it’s just because that’s what I knew and having graduated and come out. And then you start to realize that this world of design of design, yes I didn’t get expose to it but I see people who heading down that path that I could help out. You know it motivate me. Let’s see.
(2:09:43) Chou-Tac Chung:
It’s true that the exposure is often that we felt quite isolated and if we can spread the world. It’s a pretty cool.
(2:09:51) David Salow: Yeah and I loved to hear your experience Chou-Tac from being around so many teachers it seems like when you get in to this world there are people who are passionate about helping and that you know they’re seems to be, not every ones like this of course but especially I think around education you find people who are in education because what they really enjoy is this idea of serving as a support and as a bridge to help the next generation of people becomes successful.
(2:10:35) Chou-Tac Chung: Yes. So we pull efforts?
(2:10:40) David Salow: Yeah. Chris asked. How did I you end up in admission instead of teaching? (Laughs). Well I thought in Art Center too. You know my background is more the fine art and the artistry side of things. So I thought before what I really like about admissions is that because my background was originally more in fine art and things like that. Being in admissions allowed many opportunity to become knowledgeable about other design fields specifically product design, and transportation design, and entertainment design, and things like that. And those fields as passionate about those as anything else. Like I’ve always love car design and to be immerse in that and seeing like the next generation of people from around the world like start in the beginning stages. I’ve been in Art Center long enough now that I’ve seen students all the way from beginning to end. And I’ve seen them go on to careers and it’s such a gratifying thing for me to work with somebody in the beginning and then like 2 or 3 or 4 years later I see their senior show and then I go and then I talk with them and like, “Oh, I’m working at this company and that company.” I’m like, “wow!” I may play some small role on that in the very beginning. So that’s like amazingly gratifying. In some ways I’d still have like a role that’s a little bit like teaching but as not as formulas like a class environment. Each much more mentoring I think than teaching and I kind of like that. It suits me well. Anyway, I don’t talk too much about myself. (Laughs).
(2:12:37) Chou-Tac Chung: (Laugh). It’s really like you’re planting seeds.
(2:12:43) David Salow:
Yeah! It is like gardening, isn’t it? It’s planting seeds. You know I like seeing young designers in the early stages.
Because there’s so much potential there and I think one of the exciting things about portfolio is when you’re looking through peoples work and you kind of see like this one little thing here or this other thing there.
And you think, “Wow! That could really be something.”
Like that could be a really interesting idea that’s what makes me motivated. It’s like every day I come in and “who’s gonna send me an email? Or who’s gonna come? And meet with me and what kind of work do they have?” And I always get a little bit surprise because I never really know.
(2:13:44) Chou-Tac Chung: It’s always like opening like a surprise book every day.
(2:13:46) David Salow: Yeah! Yeah, it is. And I love those students to like they have that beginning idea and then they’re just willing to kinda do. One of the things I think is really I wouldn’t work at another place that wasn’t Art Center in this capacity because I think one of the great things about the school it’s kind of self-selecting in the sense that a lot of times when people first hear about Art Center and they hear that you gotta make a specialize portfolio right of the bath like a certain percentage of people say, “Wow, I’m just not gonna do that.” And I think the type of student is willing to kind of meet us half way and make a portfolio is typically the kind of student who end up being will in Art Center because their willing to kind of do the work. And I think that initial portfolio was like the best possible test. It’s like here is the standard, you might be not ready right now but we’re gonna set this goal and if you’re willing to put in the work, if you’re that type of person who’s willing to do that work. You’re probably the type of person who’s gonna do very well in an institution like Art Center. So, yeah I don’t know.
(2:15:11) Chou-Tac Chung: I was reading something this morning. There’s a quote this morning I was reading which is relate that what you are saying. I think what you are saying was like, “the path to success is not the talent but the desire.” So that’s what I like.
I believe that the most talented people might not be the one who will succeed at the end because some others might be weaker at start but have a very strong desire.
They will go through all this obstacles and succeed at the end. And go much, much farther.
(2:15:50) David Salow: Oh, god! That’s so true. I’ll speak because Art Center I’ve worked in the art world and you know I used to represent artist and I owned an art gallery and stuff so I worked with creative people my entire life. And one of the interesting phenomenon I’ve seen is sometimes if somebody is born with just like God given skill in some ways can almost be a detriment because it’s like every things comes easy so you never really force to kind of confront what truly difficult and hard work is. And in the flip side of it I’ve seen students who came in and it’s like you see their beginning portfolio and you see their sketches and you’re like, “Oh my god! This person’s got a lot of work ahead of them. But you also kind of see that kind of spark and it’s like, “yes, I’m gonna set this plan for this person and this plan is gonna take 6 months or it’s gonna take a year or whatever and they come back in the couple months and it’s like progress and progress and there’s just a sense that this person is going to be successful because they have that initial adversity of like,
“Yes, I’ve had to you know, swallow my ego and I have to do a lot of hard work but I’ve made it through the fire, I made it through the test and nothing’s going to stop me.”
And sometimes that initial difficulty of like not having a built in skill set can in some ways like be an indirect blessing I would say because it kind of forces you to test your own resole in the beginning and that initial test sometimes can be very valuable learning experience. Anyway, that’s just my thoughts on it.
I agree 100% of what you said, Chou-Tac which is the skill will come if you have the passion but it’s that passion that has to be there in the beginning.
(2:18:02) Chou-Tac Chung: Yeah, whoever like having the feeling like worried to show you their sketches, like who is shy maybe have re-clumsy right now by today. If the desire is strong enough it’s just a matter of time and dedication.
(2:18:13) David Salow: Yeah! That’s the great thing about it. I think that’s the wonderful thing about it especially these days, right? Where I think you go back 20, 30 years ago and a lot of the times knowledge just wasn’t out there so you had multiple barrier. You had to you know find the place that would teach you these names and then get into that place and now there so much of a democratization of at least that initial knowledge and those skills sets that the materials are out there. The beginning steps, the beginning training is out there. And so it’s achievable and no it’s just a question of like are you willing to put in the effort which is like the greatest thing because now that barrier to entry barrier’s down.
Now, it’ just the question of like, “Yes, you can find the instruction you need and now it’s just a question of are you willing to put in the work?” Which is great I think?
(2:19:15) Chou-Tac Chung: Yeah.
(2:19:17) David Salow: Do you think we have exhausted all attendees? (Lauhs). I think. Okay. Thank you for minimizing. I think we initially started out with like 60 years old and now it’s went on down to remaining 27. (Laughs) But it might be a good time to break. I feel maybe we’ve explored a lot of things today and talk about of bunch of different question that people have raise and you know maybe we could have a true version of this and I could see if I might be able to get perhaps maybe a more specific like it really depends I’d have to see if it’s logistically possible to get like somebody who’s in a particular major to participate but that might be something to consider in the future as well.
(2:20:18) Chou-Tac Chung: Oh, yeah that will be great. Maybe what will we could do is that you guys chill around. You can send us feedbacks about this live event and see how if you got any other ideas for future use.
(2:20:32) David Salow: Yeah, I think that’s a really smart way and just send all your feedbacks to Chou-Tac, and feel free to mention those things you like or mention those things you don’t like, and honestly whatever is most useful to the greatest amount of people if it involves me greats. You know again I’m always available to talk with anyone. So whatever you guys feel work today and what’s useful fantastic and that would maybe help shape any potential future discussion as well.
(2:21:19) Chou-Tac Chung: This is my first time doing a live chat and it feels pretty cool.
(2:21:22) David Salow: You know I think it’s something about the shared being in the same place at the same time and having questions just pop-up naturally that I really, I’ve done this type of event before where it’s like you know I have a live chat with students and what I think is really great about it is. I kind of only remember so much stuff and then somebody will ask a question that will jar something in my brain and will be like, “Oh! This is a really important point that I would have forgotten if this person didn’t ask me this question. So I kidda love this thing I think there great.
(2::2203) Chou-Tac Chung: Once in a while we can reproduce that I would be really happy to. It’s really cool.
(2:22:8) David Salow: Yeah, that would be fantastic and I think maybe the next version well opt graph how to do the video component so you guys can actually see us live. (Laughs). I don’t know if that’s a positive or negative but at least will add some visual aspect to it as well.
(2:22:35) Chou-Tac Chung: Thank you very much to everybody.
(2:22:37) David Salow: Wow! I think we got a pretty harsh rating from Chris, 3 out of 10. I was asking guys to be honest just not that honest. (Laughs).
Thank you, Chris for making me laugh that much appreciated. I’m sure we were at least 5 out of 10 maybe that. (Laughs).
Maybe it’s time to sign offline, Chou-Tac what do you think?
(2:23:7) Chou-Tac Chung: Yep, yep! I finish time for sleeping. (Laughs).
(2:23:09) David Salow: Thank you by the way for staying up this late. I know it’s 4:15 in the morning for you.
(2:23:18) Chou-Tac Chung: I’m very happy to have this moment.
(2:23:20) David Salow: Fantastic! Fantastic! So, yeah thank you everyone for staying up or waking up earlier, staying up late whatever it might be, for giving me the chance to talk to you guys very much appreciated. And hopefully we’ll talk again in the future as well. And thank you, Chou-Tac for putting all of this together.
(2:23:47) Chou-Tac Chung: Thanks, David. So see you guys. Have a good night.
(2:23:52) Alright! So you sure heard the end of this video which really meant that you are super excited, and super motivated to design in Design school and I’m pretty happy for you with that and congratulation for that. And if you want to get started in Design Sketching feel free to download the Design Starter Kit which is right here and make your first steps in in Design Sketching and to begin the journey together on the Design Sketchbook Blog.
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